Lucha Libre´s impact on Puroresu

[AbBY]

Since im mexican, i really like mexican wrestling. But, has mexican wrestling influenced puroresu in some way? i know lots of wrestlers that have gone to Japan, like Mil Mascaras or Canek, but did they really make an impact?

[stunning_grover]

Just take a look at Michinoku Pro and Osaka Pro. Those promotions are heavily influenced by lucha libre.

[HORRORSHOW]

...Or Toryumon/Dragons gate. It's heavily lucha inspired...heck, theyre lucha saturated.

[ToXiK_James]

I would have to say that Mil Mascaras along with several other luchadors from Mexico definatly made what the wrestling world is today as far as cruiserweaight or lightweight class goes. Toryumon, Michinoko Prowrestling, AAA, CMLL, and a few others really are all based off what Mexico contributed to Puroresu.

[Tradewynd]

Mascaras and Canek never really did anything of huge note, if you're asking about title reigns or headlining large shows. Mil had a series with Destroyer that was decent, but then again, if Destroyer couldn't get a good match out of you in the 70s, you were pretty worthless.

I am unsure just how much you can say what lucharesu workers do is lucha. Yes, focus on high flying highspots was taken from lucha. However, Mexican workers do a lot of things flat out incorrectly. They work the right side for instance, while everyone else on the planet works the left(and since wrestling didn't start in Mexico, Mexico is wrong on the issue. Furthermore there is a theory that the highspot style was developed because no one in Mexico actually knew any wrestling holds). Very few Mexican workers bump properly. There area lot of issues like this with lucha that are simply not issues in lucharesu.

Ultimo claims to really like the Mexican style, but when it comes down to it he doesn't teach his kids anything that's actually Mexican stylistically beyond how to do highspots. And really, I don't know how much you can say that highspots are a Mexican idea anymore. In 1990, maybe, but not in 2005. One of the first things you learn in wrestling is that if you see something you can get over, steal it, because other people won't hesisitate to steal moves from you. It's been stolen enough to the point that highspots aren't Mexican anymore.

For some reason Konnan thinks that Toryumon/Dragon's Gate, the X division, ROH and the like are all rip offs of what he did in lucha libre. Which coming from him of all people is quite a statement, considering the most exciting move he does is a forward roll (which most first graders can do) into a clothesline. To further show the point of how much of an idiot he is, he supports backyard wrestling. That should tell you everything you need to know, and completely invalidates his opinion. This is, after all, the same guy who brags about drawing fans that are so low class that they commonly riot after his shows ended.

Furthermore, lucha is far and away the lighest wrestling style on the face of the planet. Strikes are more fake looking than the 80s WWF cartoon wrestling strikes. I have yet to see any lucharesu worker hit like a girl.

It is not uncommon to see psychology used in lucharesu. At the very least you see simple things, like going back to a body part that was worked on later in a match. Psychology, for the most part, does not exist in lucha libre.

Names of lucha promotions aren't even in English, not even on their logos. Names of promotions are supposed to be in English, even in places that don't speak English. CWA, WWA Korea, AVW and others all have their names in English. And even if a company may be referred to differently in the native language, as Shin Nihon Puroresu sometimes is, it still says King of Sports on the marquee.

There are plenty of other things too, but I think that demonstrates my point.

[Pheonix_Chi25]

For Konnan to say that, he was just wrong. Or just letting his oversized bruised ego get in the way.

I truly feel a lot of the Lucharesu style, as someone on the board called it, in Japan has to do more with one of the men who started it all: Satoru "Tiger Mask" Sayama. I've read a lot of stories where he is credited with starting the Lucha "boom" in Japan. Flying over ropes or between them, creating and innovating a lot of the moves done by cruiserweights and some heavyweights also. He created the Space Flying Tiger Drop which has been widely copied in Japan and the U.S. So if anything, the lucha style was expounded more into the spotlight by Tiger Mask and later Jushin Liger.

All in all, the lucha style has impacted puro style greatly, especially when you see feds like Dragon's Gate, Osaka Pro, Michinoku Pro whose style is Lucha based. AAA even did a TripleMania show in Japan and Marifuji and KENTA recently traveled to Mexico recently to defend the NOAH GHC Jr. titles against Mr. Aguilla and Juventud Guerrera.

[Hisaharu Tanabe]

Mascaras wasn't known just for having a good series with the Destroyer. He was more like a superhero for little kids. You didn't have to be a wrestling fan to know who he was.

He was indeed one of the biggest influence/impact lucha libre had in Japan.

If you guys are bored, you might wanna read this (I apologize in advance for my poor translation of Japanese to Ingles):
http://www.puroresu.com/articles/sayama-mascaras.html

[stunning_grover]

That was a pretty interesting interview with Mil Mascaras and Satoru Sayama.

[Pheonix_Chi25]

Excellent interview Hisa, that was actually a very good read.

[Tradewynd]

Mad props for actually saying that the interview was used without permission. Not only are you stealing Weekly Gong's stuff and giving it away for free, but you're bragging about it too

However, I cannot in good faith accept that little kids needed Mil Mascaras to look up to. Even in the 60s and 70s there was Astroboy. Granted, Astroboy
really wasn't that good, but he's better a guy who constantly changes masks and wants to be the next Richard Simmons. And really, considering that Ultraman was around...come on. Mascaras couldn't carry Ultraman's jock. (o|o) ( ^_^ )V

[Hisaharu Tanabe]

I added the interview when this site wasn't that famous. I guess I should read thru and revise whatever needs to be changed.

[Pheonix_Chi25]

Gosh, I must have missed the boat on Sayama then

[stunning_grover]

Gosh, I must have missed the boat on Sayama then

What do you mean? Even though Mascaras was around earlier, Sayama was still a great (or maybe even greater) influence.