Tamon Honda Rolling Olympic Hell (XI, II) questions
I've got questions on exactly how these particular two manuevers are done. The video with "all Olympic rolling hells" from lilcube.com only has four, and not these.. or the special. The description basically goes like this for them and I was hoping anybody who had seen them could help fill in the blanks or post pictures? or a video/video clip link?
II - "duck under and rolling pin" - no idea at all beyond maybe duck under a clothesline or punch and roll forward with a reverse rolling prawn pin? (ending up seated on victims legs/rear while victim is on their back being pinned)
XI - ground rear shoulder hold w/kneebar and grapevine, can be used as a cradle.
That seems to indicate it's the same shoulder hold as V, which I have a clip of, and it says kneebar and grapevine, would that be like Milano AT's armlock with the legs barring the leg on the same side (one under the knee, one across the shin to keep it in place)?
II . Pin? I know he does a roll-up to the side pin from his grounded neck-lock. .. (Rolling Olympic Hell special) But "duck and cover" .. That confuses me. Sounds like some rolling prawn move indeed.
XI . That sounds alot like Tamon's shooter, wich is a modified STF .. "Can be used as a cradle confuses me"
Not much I can help with, wish I could , since I really like Tamon's moves. But I'd like also to see what they are.
Hm, do you know exactly how he does the Shooter and the Rolling Olympic Hell special pin? I have a clip of Rolling Olympic Hell 0 but the pin, I'm guessing here, performs an inside cradle leg hook while snapping the guy over his side rather than keep the hold locked in on the ground? If you can help me out with those that'll be great, hopefully someone knows the other two!
Sure, thanks to the great videogame King of Colosseum 2!
According to the game , Tamon's Shooter: He hooks the opponent's left leg like a normal Stf, but towards his(opponents) other leg (locked leg leaning towards other leg). Hope you get what I mean ,you know, like Baba's stf. Then instead of applying a chinlock, he puts the opponents right arm over his head and locks in the submission. Sounds like a Shoulder lock. That Stf seems similar to what is described as XI.
Rolling olympic Hell Special: Tamon starts applying his normal grounded Neck-lock, after a bit of squeezing, he does a 180 degree with the guy still hooked in, puts his shoulders to the mat, and grabs one of his legs with his other arm and there is a cradle.
Note about Tamon's Shooter: Prior to applying the modified Stf, he starts like he is about to do a figure-four leg lock, when he has his back turned, the other guy turns around to avoid it , but Tamon slaps in the afformentioned Stf.
Something that's similar to the Shooter is the Rolling Olympic Hell 4, wich starts exactly like the shooter , with the Figure 4 and Stf play around, but when he wants to slap in the Stf, the guy turns around again to avoid the Stf, and then Tamon locks in his traditionnal Ground Neck-Lock.
Wow, that's kind of complex. Tamon's moves are confusing. He needs a encyclopedia just for his Rolling olympic hells. And I hope I'm not confusing you more. If you have any other questions on moves, I love to awnser those.
Actually yes, I do get what you mean about the Shooter because I've been studying some of these moves for a bit, and I do have a clip of a move in which somebody does a Baba-ish STF like you just described. They did say the Hell 4 was the ground shoulder hold when somebody tried to escape the Shooter.
About the move you discussed being the special: Does he roll the guy TOWARDS the ground shoulder hold or twist him with it away, like if he has the left side locked, does he twist left, or go right to get his opponent down and does he let go to trap the leg for the cradle or grab and resume the lock with the leg trapped for the pin?
And thank you so far for your help! I actually think XI might be the kneebar Milano AT uses mixed with his armlock in an Italian Stretch, which would allow a cradle type pin. And you're right, somebody needs to either post clips of all of them or make an encyclopedia, heh.
I am going to try to get a clip off the game for the Special (Ugly quality though). Check your Pm's , I might have something later. It's kind of hard to describe in english. Or if anyone else have the real clip , go ahead and link it.
Tamon's Shooter is doing an STF Baba-Style (with a spinning toehold setup) but he has the grip more like Regal's Regal Stretch.
II is a counter move, he ducks under a strike or such, sort of has his opponent's arm wrapped around their neck then rolls down into a pin. He used it on Kobashi right before losing the GHC title match.
XI-- It's almost the same as V but the opponent's leg is trapped in there as well and he grapevines their other leg. It looks like it would be a sub, but he pinned Marufuji with it. I don't know if he's used it since. It looks like one of Nina William's side throws if you've ever played Tekken.
Okay so I'll try and get all this as straight as possible:
The Shooter is like a deathlock-STF with one leg leaned into the crook of the knee of the other and locked, with the Regal Stretch type grasp of the neck while ducking under one arm and pulling back.
II - traps the arm after ducking a strike from it across the neck across the neck (like Regal did with his "Regal Cutter") and rolls the guy from behind to his shoulders, holding the hand of the arm as well to keep the pin? Or maybe like a ground cobra twist in the way he rolls backward to get the opponent down?
XI - Okay there's two ways I'm thinking with this:
1. he traps the leg with the shoulder hold like a "capture" suplex Tazz used to do in ECW, rolls toward the side and holds both legs over the other leg while keeping the opponent on their shoulders
or..
2. Locks in the shoulder hold, rolls forward and traps one leg with his and the other with his arm, like with the Special?
The second would be like the "IV Kneelock" when the opponent rolls forward and has the leg scissored but in this case, could just grab one leg with an arm and the other held in a grapevine via both legs.
Any luck on the last one as far as how it goes, and if so which version is closest?
II--I meant Honda has their arm draped on him, sorry. he rolls forward.
XI--Neither. He's behind the opponent, grabs around their head and arm with one hand (just like in V) and their leg with the other. on the ground he locks his hands trying to make their knee meet their face. He then wraps one of his legs around their free leg.
Thanks again, Kokushishin, for your help. I now get the XI version, and the only question I have for the Rolling Hell II is after he puts their own arm across his neck and rolls forward does he just grab a leg and lean over them for a pin? Basically i'm just wondering exactly what pin he does out of that since several can be done from that position.
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