Heath Herring Vs. Mirko Filipovic, Pride 26

[Technosphile]

This is the most insane booking I have ever seen. I wonder what rules this will be under...

KO win for Filipovic. This is clearly PRIDE testing the waters for him to fight Fedor or Nogueira.

-Tech

[edgehead1984]

Go Mirko!!!!

[The Franceman]

CroCop plain and simple.

I hope Herring has good insurance.

[Luds]

Cro Cop all the way... seriously, his stock is through the roof!

[Dr Feelgood]

I might be going out on a limb here, but under PRIDE rules I see Heath by ref. stoppage from knees to the head.
I just don't see Mirko being able to knock out big guys like Fyodor or Heath before they can take him down and gain position to pound him.

Building up to a moneymatch with Fyodor, I am afraid that PRIDE will protect the CroCop with special rules though

As for Heath getting knocked out, I seriously doubt that

[Technosphile]

Originally posted by Dr Feelgood
I might be going out on a limb here, but under PRIDE rules I see Heath by ref. stoppage from knees to the head.
I just don't see Mirko being able to knock out big guys like Fyodor or Heath before they can take him down and gain position to pound him.

Building up to a moneymatch with Fyodor, I am afraid that PRIDE will protect the CroCop with special rules though

As for Heath getting knocked out, I seriously doubt that

This post is just another piece of evidence: you don't like Mirko Filipovic.

According to you, referring to past matches is irrelevant, but you're wrong about that as well. Here is how I see it:

Herring/Fedor, PRIDE 23
At the start of the match, Herring pulled his usual stupid act of rushing Fedor and trying what amounts to a Yakuza kick. He got clocked right in the face. For the rest of the fight, he got the crap kicked out of him. If he tries this with Filipovic, it will be lights out in seconds. He has no self-control and he tries risky stuff just to get the fans riled up. Mirko is smarter than he is. Need I even mention that Mirko's punches have a tendency to shatter eye sockets?

Filipovic/Fujita, Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2002
At least three times, Fujita attempted to shoot in on Cro Cop. Every single time, Filipovic countered with a GORGEOUS sprawl. He had been working on it, and I'm sure it has only improved since then.

Doc, its time to accept it: Mirko Filipovic is the second coming. He can strike, he can wrestle, he can control fights from any position. He will win this fight, and he will probably be the next PRIDE heavyweight champion. I'd much rather see him win the K-1 Grand Prix, but whatever.

We can put some money on this one if you'd like. I'm sure Hisa won't like that.

-Tech

[Muiyan]

Tech, since when did Mirko proved to be able to control fights from every position?
He's king in standup, he sprawls to defend shoots, but then what if he's on his back? What if he finally failed to defend a shoot and get put on his back? Then what?

[Technosphile]

Originally posted by Muiyan
Tech, since when did Mirko proved to be able to control fights from every position?
He's king in standup, he sprawls to defend shoots, but then what if he's on his back? What if he finally failed to defend a shoot and get put on his back? Then what?

Filipovic has been in this situation twice: vs. Vanderlei Silva at PRIDE 20, and against Kazushi Sakuraba at PRIDE vs. K-1 Dynamite!. Against Silva, Mirko successfully deflected nearly every shot Silva threw at him from the ground. His "swim" technique against said punches was really impressive.

Against Saku...well...Sak's eye socket was broken. Not only that, but Mirko's incredibly strong legs allowed him to literally push Sakuraba off of him. I don't know if Herring's extra weight will allow this, but you never know.

-Tech

[Dr Feelgood]

Originally posted by Technosphile
This post is just another piece of evidence: you don't like Mirko Filipovic.

Been reading up on any of my old posts lately? If you have, you haven't been doing a very good job. I did put him in my top 10 favourite fighters... Actually, I don't see why I even have to defend this, I've been a Cro Cop fan ever since I saw him in K-1.

Funny how you can be called a croatian "nut-hugger" on one board and a Cro Cop basher on another for holding exactly the same point. Oh well, I suppose coherence isn't highly prized on the net

According to you, referring to past matches is irrelevant, but you're wrong about that as well. Here is how I see it:

I've no problem with how you "see" the match, but you should note the subjective nature of the verb (why do you think I used it in the first place?) and wait to hear an argument out before decreeing that somebody is wrong. Especially when it comes down to fight cross-comparisons.

Sure, Mirko can sprawl. But I'm not convinced that will be enough against an opponent who can outpower and outwrestle him.
Comparisons are only relative indicators anyway, but I don't think that any of his previous MMA fights are even good indicators as to what he can expect against Heath Herring.
Mirko has not been kept on his back for any length of time by anyone with decent wrestling skills and superior power. Neither Silva (the match was under mixed rules too), nor Saku (who's a grappler) offer the same kind of problem as being on the ground with Heath will. As for Fujita: too slow and inactive. The main danger for Mirko will not be getting submitted or even avoiding GnP (he is good at counterpunching from his own guard, but even then he has more to fear from Heath's GnP than any previous opponent's), it will be preventing Heath from passing guard, gaining a sidemount or N/S position and letting those knees rain down. That was the main point of my post, and I agree fully with Muiyan's arguments.
Maybe Cro Cop will be able to overcome this difficulty, but nothing in his previous fights can give anyone any certainty that he will and this is definitely going to be a huge test for him. Anyone who can't see that, and thinks that the Croatian Cop can walk through any wrestling-style opponent, is simply delusional.

As for the other comparisons, Heath did indeed get clocked and punished for most of the round against Fyodor, but it's hard to determine what is the correct strategy against the russian. Maybe Minotauro would have been wiser to keep it standing more during their fight? Who knows...
Cro Cop isn't invincible either and the same "arguments" could be made against him. After all, he has been KOed a number of times.
And not only by K-1's best.


Doc, its time to accept it: Mirko Filipovic is the second coming. He can strike, he can wrestle, he can control fights from any position. He will win this fight, and he will probably be the next PRIDE heavyweight champion. I'd much rather see him win the K-1 Grand Prix, but whatever.
Somebody has just jumped aboard the bandwagon, it seems!
Same points as Muiyan. His abilities to control fights from ANY position (even when an opponent has the sidemount or the back?) haven't been tested yet.
Anything can happen in MMA, but I'd be more circumspect about his chances against Heath and very pessimistic if he were to face Fyodor, much as I like and respect the Croatian.

We can put some money on this one if you'd like. I'm sure Hisa won't like that.
Yeah, whatever. Just drink a beer to my health if Heath wins, I'll do the same to you if he loses.

[Technosphile]

Originally posted by Dr Feelgood

Maybe Cro Cop will be able to overcome this difficulty, but nothing in his previous fights can give anyone any certainty that he will and this is definitely going to be a huge test for him. Anyone who can't see that, and thinks that the Croatian Cop can walk through any wrestling-style opponent, is simply delusional.

This is the first time he has ever fought someone this heavy under these rules, of course its going to be a huge test for him. However, the fact is that he's on fire and coming off one of the biggest "upsets" in competitve martial arts history. I wouldn't think that he could walk through any wrestling-style opponent if it wasn't what has happened consistently.

Herring knows that he can't strike with Mirko, so he's going to try and tackle him. Mirko already knows his opponent's game plan. You do the math.

As for the other comparisons, Heath did indeed get clocked and punished for most of the round against Fyodor, but it's hard to determine what is the correct strategy against the russian.

Here's one: don't start the fight with some showboaty running kick.

Cro Cop isn't invincible either and the same "arguments" could be made against him. After all, he has been KOed a number of times.
And not only by K-1's best.

True, but Herring isn't Hoost or even Michael McDonald. I hope he tries to strike, I really do. My Cro Cop highlight reel could use another moron's mouthpiece flying.

Somebody has just jumped aboard the bandwagon, it seems!

Umm, no. I'm the guy driving the bandwagon. Have been since the 1999 K-1 Grand Prix.

Anything can happen in MMA, but I'd be more circumspect about his chances against Heath and very pessimistic if he were to face Fyodor, much as I like and respect the Croatian.

We'll see how he performs against Fujita. I'm not buying into the Fedor hype just yet.

Yeah, whatever. Just drink a beer to my health if Heath wins, I'll do the same to you if he loses.

I don't drink. How about you just come on here and admit I was right?

-Tech

[Dr Feelgood]

Sorry I couldn't resist this one:

Originally posted by Technosphile
Hey:
Since this fight is happening at a K-1 event, I'm assuming that this will be a kickboxing match as opposed to MMA rules. Either way, Filipovic is going down.

-Technosphile

Since when has Cro Cop consistently beaten wrestlers?

Anyway, you're on for the public apology after the match

And 1999 won't put you in the driving seat of the Cro Cop bandwagon, though it will be interesting to see how many people get off if he loses to Heath

[Technosphile]

When I wrote that, I had JUST gotten back into MMA and hadn't even seen Sapp fight yet. Check the dates, my first post ever where I asked about Takada and Tamura in PRIDE was in close proximity to the post in question.

Filipovic has beaten the following wrestlers:

Kazuyuki Fujita, twice
Yuji Nagata, 21 second KO
Kazushi Sakuraba, broken eye socket
Nobuhiko Takada, this went to a draw, but according to you, "we all know who won in the ring that night"
Bob Sapp, 1:26 KO...if he counts.

1999 Grand Prix was where he took center stage and became a major force in the MMA/K-1 world. Somehow I doubt you were big on him before that, either.

-Tech

[Dr Feelgood]

This topic is turning into a one-on-one, but anyway...
As I pointed out before:
Saku is a grappler, Takada and Nagata are pro-wrestlers, Fujita can hardly pass the guard, and Sapp was fought under K-1 rules.
Heath Herring might not be Mark Coleman but he's more likely to trouble Mirko for position on the ground than any of the aforementioned.

I knew of Mirko before then, courtesy of my croatian friends, but no I didn't get much interested in K-1 until a few years ago.

[Technosphile]

I'm pretty sure Kazushi Sakuraba would tell you he's a wrestler, not a "grappler".

I'm done fighting about this with you anyway, let Mirko and Herring decide for us. I like you too much to keep bickering like a pair of 8-year-olds.

-Tech

[Dr Feelgood]

Fair enough, see you on this same board on the 13th of June