Royce Gracie Vs Bruce Lee

[Toan]

OK, this is kind of a dream match to me so let's weigh up the possibilities...

Royce Gracie primarily is a grappler who though isn't very big has taken guys out who are a lot bigger than he is (note the Semi-final match in UFC 2 where Gracie faced a 6"4" and 260lb man named Remco Pardoel). He has good cardio and seems to have an uncanny ability of being one or two moves ahead of his opponents.

Bruce Lee (in his prime) practised his own customised martial art of Jeet Kun Do which is heavily based on Wing Chun-style Kung Fu with bits and pieces taken from other martial arts. Bruce has speed and reaction time over Gracie as well as his martial art being designed for street fighting rather than the Octagon ring.

Personally, I think if Bruce could catch Gracie off guard when he went in for a double leg-takedown he could beat him though in contrast if Gracie could avoid Bruce's jackhammer-like fists and kicks he could get Bruce down on the mat where he is nearly unbeatable.

[Lobo Laben]

I agree with you - I think if Lee caught him with a strike it would be over - but if Royce took him to the ground - Lee would tap

[ToXiK_James]

I would have to agree with you Lobo...except the only thing is if Gracie could actually take him down. I mean Bruce Lee has powerful strikes and is very quick so I mean if Gracie could have actually taken him down that would have been amazing.

[BusaLiger Dragon]

I like both of the two but i would say bruce lee just for the fact that he is one fast guy...i mean his strikes are **** near impossible to dodge well i mean you could dodge them but to get hit by one of his strikes would IMO take you out. Maybe we should ask Ultimo Dragon about who would win...

[kurama_tengu]

I don't know where I heard or read it, but I think Lee was a pretty good student of all martial arts and learned a little grappling, although nothing like Gracie Ju-jitsu.

[Toan]

Yeah, like I said... Bruce's style was made for use on the streets whilst Gracie Jujitsu was made for inside the Octagon ring.

[ZDrax]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but as a long time fan of Bruce Lee (he's what got me interested in combat sports), and not to tarnish his legacy, but I think the myth of Bruce Lee has overstated his real combat worthiness.

Bruce Lee was involved in precious few fights after the development of Jeet Kune Do. He participated in no tournaments with recorded results. In this sense, Gracie beats Lee with respect to combat experience. Gracie has been hit a lot more times in his life, and dealt with the strain of combat. He's far more callused than Lee ever was.

Bruce Lee's "conditioning" has been built up to mythic proportions. New research shows his VO2 max was far below that of today's MMA and K-1 competitors. Compared to the average populace, he was slighltly above average - in reality his physique was more a function of his inadequete caloric intake rather than his supposed superhuman ability. To give you an example, modern day competitive K-1 fighters have VO2 maxes of 80-90 (equivalent of running a 4:30 mile). Bruce's max was somewhere between 50-60. I imagine Grace's is somewhere in Bruce's range if not above, simply due to his training for more extensive fights. Nod to Gracie again.

Third, Bruce had notoriously weak lower body strength. It's what gave him such tremendous speed, but not really "force." If you watch his movies, his "incredible" sidekicks are really more of a function of total body intertia than actual effectiveness. I'd take Sakuraba any day over Bruce's kicks. In this respect, Bruce would be very susceptible to takedowns.

Fourth, the evolution of combat gives the nod to Gracie. Arguably Jeet Kune Do was the precursor to MMA. In fact, reading Bruce's treatises on JKD leads to the evolution of MMA. No style, set dogmatic form. Fighting as a human being and not as a "Japanese, Chinese, or American." Constant evolution, reject what is useless, and retain what is useful. In this sense, Gracie can be seen as the evolution of Lee's ideals of what a martial artist should be. As a fierce proponent of modernity, I think Lee would even give the nod himself to Gracie.

Ultimately, JKD and Lee were the catalyst for innumerable developments in the martial arts world. However, I think a direct line can be traced from JKD to MMA. Lee lived in a time where the understanding of the human body and the way to optimize it was just coming into its own as a field of study. Certainly Lee had a phenomenal impact on the martial arts world, but as a true combatant, I believe any modern day MMA practioner or K-1 competitor , involved in hard training and frequent competition would destroy Lee.

That being said, Lee Jun-Fan is still one of the greatest inspirations in my life.

[kurama_tengu]

Zdrax,
I'll await One to Remember to scold you for not remembering Bruce's great fights , captured on film for eternity mind you, with "real" athletes such as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar(a multiple NCAA and NBA Champion!) and Chuck Norris!! Hahahaha!

On a serious note, all of your points are well stated. It would have been interesting if MMA tournaments were held in Lee's time and how he would've done against the different experts of his time.

What I'd really like to see is Rickson Gracie actually fight someone and put his "legacy" on the line. That is one thing I really like about Royler Gracie, he's open to fighting anyone, with no silly rules to favor his style like no time limit, no stand-ups, etc. To me, his losses to the tough fighters he's lost to doesn't diminish his reputation.